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set. he's a failure, the family income has gone down $4,000 in 3 1/2 years under obama compared to $2,000 under george w. in eight years. >> because of that family income, that's not a made up number, that's a government number. i think both of these guys should be looking for permanent middle class tax cuts. permanent middle class tax cuts so that take-home pay will go up. i'll give you the last word. >> i found myself strangely agreeing with your plan to cut the middle class and take away the deductions and keep tax rates for people who make a lot of money like you and i fairly high. i think that makes abundant good sense. but we're forgetting one thing. the biggest challenge may be even more than anything is our debt and our deficit. and i think with governor romney and paul ryan figured out was they can't give $5 trillion worth of tax cuts and still eat into the deficit, which i think is our biggest national problem. >> i think -- >> you're right. he might be able to do it. he might be able to do it if they did your plan. >> i'm telling you. you know, you were a good tax break gov
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